…Says federal police can’t pretend to be State Police

…Insists S-West govs failed on Amotekun

…Intelligence failed in tackling insecurity in North

…Explains why Makinde erred in calling for Oriire abduction probe

…Insists all faiths are victims of terrorism

By Dapo Akinrefon

Chief Ademola Folarin, a lawyer, is the General Secretary of the pan-Yoruba socio-political organisation, Afenifere.

Mr Folarin, who is the Agbaakin Maiyegun of Ibadanland, in this interview, speaks on state police but takes a swipe at governors for not doing enough to tackle insecurity.

He also explains why the Western security network, Amotekun, failed to live up to expectations in the South West.

The Afenifere chieftain also faults Governor Seyi Makinde of Oyo State for calling on United Nations to probe the recent abduction in Oriire.

On the alleged persecution of Christians insists that all faiths are victims of terrorism. Excerpts:

Let’s start with State Police. There have been issues around State Police. Most Nigerians believe we are ripe for State Police. While the President has also given his consent and the House of Assembly has passed the bill. What are your thoughts on State Police? Do you think it will address or reduce insecurity?
I don’t think the issue of State Police is open to debate. Afenifere has been at the forefront of a clamour for State Police. We have been championing it for decades. The President didn’t just decide to do State Police. It was part of the pressure that Afenifere put on him. Yes, because when we met him in March 2024, State Police was one of the things we demanded. Since then, we have not stopped demanding it. I say it’s not open to debate. Has anybody criticised the President for creating more army formations? Why is he doing so? It’s simple logic. Anybody arguing against State Police, I’m sorry, probably doesn’t understand governance and the issue of security. Look at America; they have bases in different parts of the world. You cannot police a country from one central command. You have to decentralise it. That is consistent with the system of government we practise, which is the federal system. The states are coordinates; they are not co-equal. I hope people understand the difference because most people don’t. State Police is something we should have had for decades. Anyway, we had Regional Police. So, the argument against State Police is pedestrian because they say it may be abused. But the Federal Government abuses federal police, so should we scrap it? You saw what happened in Osun just a few days ago. That’s federal police appearing to harass the state apparatus. Should we scrap the central police because of that?

What measures should we take to prevent such abuse?

Well, the first point is, we created Amotekun a few years ago. Have the governors abused their powers under Amotekun? I think we’re overflogging it. And then you cannot give somebody something with one hand and take it with the other. Yes, we need to have guardrails. There’s no doubt about that. Not just for State Police, even for federal police because it’s also open to abuse. In terms of abuse, the states don’t have a monopoly on the tendency to abuse. The federal government can also abuse it. Olusegun Obasanjo did it. For instance, the current State Police bill, for me, is a welcome development. We have praised it. But it’s not consistent with the fundamental principles of federalism. You say you create a State Police, but the governor must seek approval of the police council to appoint. Approval of the police council to sack. Does that make sense to you? Then, the commissioner of police can, at his discretion, refuse to obey an order of the state or the governor, because he thinks it’s illegal. Why should he decide that? And what does he do? It doesn’t make sense. You see, there must be mutual trust if we want this country to grow. Afenifere commended the president for having the courage, despite resistance from familiar quarters, to have the courage to establish State Police. We need it. But we need State Police, not federal police pretending to be State Police. It is a good starting point. We have to start from somewhere. At least now, live arms will be moved to the concurrent list, which is one of the main defects of the Amotekun set-up. They can’t carry the kind of arms they need to carry. Now, State Police can do so.

Basically, we welcome State Police, but we think that it should be ridded of its federal shackles. We don’t say that it should not be moderated, but there’s too much. It’s like, what are we afraid of? If you really want governors to have the appropriate tools to fight terrorism and all the banditry, you must give them the power to do so.

So, rather than say the governor cannot sack unless you go to the centre, why don’t you go to the State House of Assembly? Or a special arrangement where maybe the state Chief Judge does that. If you look at the State Police Council, out of about 11 members, the governor appoints only five. So, is it his council? I can understand where we’re coming from, because we have not outgrown this tendency to disintegrate the country. We’ve not outgrown it, unfortunately.

I think it’s our politicians who are taking us backwards rather than forward. But even then, the greatest hassle to our existence as we speak, as a nation, is insecurity through banditry, terrorism and things like that. Every tool that we can deploy, including weapons that we can deploy, we should do so in a holistic manner.

Speaking of insecurity, we’ve had cases where there are measures to deradicalise and reintegrate them into society. Do you support it?

Not all terrorists have killed. Those who have killed should be tried for murder, dealt with as you normally would deal with murderers. I don’t think they should have a special concession in terms of that.

What then is the basis of killing? If it’s capital punishment, why should they be spared? But if one is a terrorist and he has not been caught, there’s no evidence that he has murdered anybody. If you go into a village, abduct people, and start demanding a state of your own or something like that is terrorism. Have you killed them? So, if you haven’t killed anybody, you can be reintegrated. That’s the normal thing. Once you’ve served your jail time, the normal thing is to be reintegrated. Otherwise, if you are not reintegrated, you go back to your old ways.

It’s a sociological issue. I think one of the ways by which you reform criminals is to reintegrate them. Those that you don’t intend to kill. Now, for those who kill, that’s a different issue for me. There’s no basis to spare them; kill them. Well, if that is what the law says. Just as you kill somebody, an armed robber who shoots someone.

It’s a standard thing. Anybody who goes to jail and comes back normally should be reintegrated. It’s a way to ensure that he doesn’t go back. If you just leave him to his own elements, he will go back.

You spoke earlier on the operations of Amotekun. Do you think the vision for Amotekun is still alive?
Well, my first reaction is that what is happening to Amotekun now is proof that tackling security is not just about talking or clamouring for a position. It’s about real action. It also shows that governors are not passionate. They don’t regard tackling insecurity as a priority.

Governors in the South-West?

Yes. Well, they are the ones who created Amotekun. It’s a sad commentary on the memory of Rotimi Akeredolu. I don’t know what he would have made of Amotekun if he was alive. I think death has more or less spared him from any criticism.

Now, but for those left behind, the governors we have, they are a big disappointment. I speak for myself. I’m not speaking for Afenifere. When I speak for Afenifere, I will say so. And I think for the State Police, I spoke for Afenifere. But on this one, I speak for myself. They are a big disappointment. I don’t blame them. I blame Nigerians who, rather than calling the governors to order and taking them to account, would concentrate on the centre. Everything is federal government. Everything the states need, they have.

They have more resources in terms of money. And they have security votes; what do they use the money for? Now, I think Oyo State has just bought a surveillance aircraft. They could have done that three years ago. Why is it coming now? They should have done it three, four years ago. Doing surveillance all over the state. And it’s not just Oyo State. All the states. They are doing nothing about security. They’ve had the opportunity to do so to avert all these. Federal government has financially enabled the states to do what they should do in terms of security. Now, it’s a joint effort.

So, I’m not saying that the federal government has no responsibility. Amotekun has failed. Even the State Police will fail if the states do not do what they need to do. There was a time that somebody, one governor, was arguing that if they want to create state police, they have to fund it. We’ve been planning for state police. Guess what? If I were a governor, the day state police is approved, I will not wait for federal funds.

I will start. You know, maybe incrementally. And when federal government funds come, then I will spread.
I will not wait. Security of lives and property is the first primary responsibility of any government. Without it, nothing else works. So, you can’t wait for the Federal Government.

The Federal Government has a big role to play, but the states also have a great role to play. They must work together. Talking about Amotekun, we have not held them to account. We, the citizens. Nobody, until this Oriire thing nobody has been talking about state governments not performing their functions in terms of security.

And it’s their fault. We clamoured for Amotekun. When we got it, what did we do with it? When they asked to establish Amotekun, were we expecting the federal government to fund it? So, why are we clamouring for it when we know we won’t do it? It shows hypocrisy.

It shows irresponsibility on the part of our state governors. And I say so without any fear of any contradiction or whatever.

On the recent abductions and the release of students and teachers in Oriire, most people are calling on the federal government to replicate the same thing in other areas…

What was the method by which he did this one? Intelligence. There was no serious exchange of gunfire or anything like that. It was intelligence. And intelligence always failed in the North because it was always leaked. America said so. When they were going to gas some bandits and terrorists, by the time they got to the place, the terrorists had gas masks on their faces. So somebody had told them. That did not happen at Oriire.

Are you saying there are moles in our security structure?

It’s a fact. So many people have alluded to it. General Danjuma has alluded to it. Everybody, we all know, even the DSS, said the security apparatus was already infiltrated; everybody to his own tent. We should go and defend ourselves. So that’s why it did not work. The federal government has always tried to do what they needed to do anywhere. But it’s always been frustrated by the enemies within. And so nobody should start complaining. They had intelligence, knew all the members of their families, and took their pictures. You want to kill people; these are your people, we’ll kill them too. That was smart. There was nothing they could do but to just let the people go and run for their own lives. That’s why there was no serious exchange of fire, and nobody was hurt.

Governor Seyi Makinde has called for a probe panel to investigate the Oriire abduction. What do you say to that?

No, no, there’s nothing wrong in him setting up his own. There’s nothing wrong with that. When we had doubts about the way the census was conducted in the South-West, Governor Tinubu, now President Tinubu, appointed enumerators to follow federal enumerators. There’s nothing wrong in complementing each other.

He can set up his Judicial Commission of Enquiry, but what he ought not to have said, which was irresponsible to say, is to ask for the United Nations to come. For me, that was a cheap political statement. Coming from a governor of my state, I would say it was irresponsible. It’s a cheap political statement because the first thing he did was to congratulate and thank the President and the Armed Forces for the release of the schoolchildren and teachers. If you thought it was a fluke, why would you congratulate them? If you thought it was arranged or stage-managed, why would you congratulate them? You wouldn’t. So once you did that, it didn’t make sense for you to now say you had suspicions about maybe it was a ruse. Now you are setting up your own Judicial Commission. Why didn’t you call the United Nations to be part of it? I don’t know. It didn’t make sense. You can call for independent people within the country, but asking the United Nations to come in is not necessary.

Number one, the United Nations has no such power. If you knew that, why would you call for it? It didn’t make sense.

The U.S. recently sent troops to Nigeria to say that they were going to assist in tackling insecurity. Some people are saying that that did not have any impact. Do you support the U.S. sending troops in the first place?

Well, I don’t think we should expect an instant reduction in criminal activities just because the United States has intervened. I support the intervention on the basis that it was a mutually conceived intervention, not that the United States just invaded Nigeria. The Federal Government invited them and they came to help us.

By the way, the U.S. also was pursuing its interest. They have been looking for an international terrorist.
And also, President Trump has the evangelicals, the Christian evangelicals, as his major base in the United States. It’s good optics that he’s fighting for Christian values.

Do you believe there is Christian persecution in Nigeria?

It would be disingenuous to deny it. However, victims of terrorism are not only Christians. Go and look at how many churches have been burnt compared to mosques, if any.

Communities that are invaded. You know, when you look at it. it would also be disingenuous to deny the attempt to Islamise. I believe there’s Christian persecution. But that’s different from saying that only Christians are victims of terrorism. There are two different things. All faiths are victims of terrorism. But there is an active agenda to Islamise Nigeria and to persecute Christians. It’s written all over the place.

Look at Southern Kaduna until recently. Southern Kaduna is mainly Christian now. There is the Plateau and the rest of that. Nigerian-American cooperation is quite welcome, and I think it should be sustained. We shouldn’t expect instant relief. Just like the economic reform agenda of the government.

There’s no doubt that the trajectory is positive. Does that mean that people will feel instant succour? No. It will take time. That’s the way it is all over the world. There’s no instant answer to economic collapse. You have to rebuild.

If a house collapses, building it is a function of so many things. Do you have the money to build it now?

Can the soil that you want to build it on now take the weight again? There are so many considerations. It takes time.

And in doing so, if you don’t really have a lot of money, and you have to start borrowing, it’s going to be painful to do so. The trajectory is positive. And I’m sorry, only a politician who is seeking his own personal interest would deny that. One of the pitfalls of democracy is adversarial politics, which means that for you to succeed, you must destroy. If you don’t destroy your opponent, you have no chance of getting to power. So whatever he does, you criticise; you don’t see anything good about it.

It’s one of the pitfalls of democracy and why they say it’s not the best form of government, but we are yet to find a better one. That’s just the problem. Democracy has too many pitfalls.

It’s permissive. It’s based on the rule of law, and the rule of law is permissive. You know, it’s easier to deal with an innocent person than to deal with a criminal. I’m a lawyer, so I know what I’m talking about. And it’s based on Christian principles. The law would rather that a criminal escape than for an innocent man to be punished. That’s the law. It would rather that a criminal escape.

You know why? To ensure that no innocent person is punished for an offence that he did not commit, the law would make a mistake, would prefer to make a mistake to set a criminal free. To now convict him, punish him, and find out that he was innocent. Do you get it? So it’s extremely permissive.

And it’s difficult to argue otherwise. Because it’s a great injustice to punish an innocent person thinking that he was guilty. That’s the foundation.

Why is Afenifere divided?

Well, that’s a subject I don’t want to get into. It is a family matter as far as I’m concerned. But we are resolving it, I can assure you. It’s not something that happens overnight.

Osun State Governor Ademola Adeleke has urged residents of the state to reject what he described as agents of violence by coming out in large numbers to vote in the August 15 governorship election.

Speaking during a church service at Winners Chapel in Osogbo on Sunday, Adeleke said voters should not be intimidated by threats or violence allegedly linked to the opposition.

According to a statement issued by his spokesperson, Olawale Rasheed, the governor claimed that the opposition had resorted to violence after losing the support of the people and realising that defeat was imminent.

He added that neither he nor the people of Osun State were intimidated by such actions.

“I urge all residents to come out peacefully on election day and use their votes to reject those behind the violence,” Adeleke said.

“On August 15, Osun people will show agents of violence that we are not cowards. Our people’s safety is guaranteed. Come out and vote. Punish those killing and maiming our people by voting against them on August 15,” he said.

The governor assured residents that his administration remained committed to protecting lives and property, stressing that their safety was his top priority.

Adeleke said he was not intimidated by the Osun APC, insisting that his administration had the capacity to face any challenge.

However, he stressed that his priority remained the safety and protection of the people, urging residents to come out and vote according to their conscience.

“Our record in workers’ welfare, healthcare, education, infrastructure, agriculture and other sectors speaks for itself, and I am confident the people of Osun will give us another mandate on August 15,” Adeleke said.

Arise News anchor, Rufai Oseni, has said that as by presidential candidate that feels too big to appear for an interview on television will never serve Nigerians well.

In a post on X, Rufai said such persons will be too big for the people they intend to govern.

His assertion came as Nigerians are warming up to go to the polls to elect their President, governors and representatives at the national and state levels.

DAILY POST recalls that the Independent National Electoral Commission, INEC, has published credentials and personal details of presidential candidates and their running mates.

“Any presidential candidate that is too big to appear for an interview on television will never serve Nigerians well.

“Such persons will be too big for the people, especially those that will never debate,” Rufai wrote.